London Underground workers vote in favour of possible strike action over pay

London Underground workers have given a fresh mandate for strike action while pay talks continue.

Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) voted by more than 9-1 in favour of taking action if necessary over the next six months.

No strike dates have been announced but the union said it is keen to secure an improved offer on pay.

The RMT said because of changes to pay bands, not all members would be entitled to the same percentage increase which was “wholly unacceptable”.

General secretary Mick Lynch said: “Our members on London Underground are sending a clear message to management that they will not put up with substandard pay offers or any attempt to treat members unequally in any pay deal.

“We are always willing to find solutions to industrial relations issues, but our members will not tolerate an imposition of any pay deal where members are not being treated equally or fairly.”

A Transport for London spokesperson said: “We are disappointed that the RMT has balloted London Underground employees over pay and conditions.

“We have held a number of constructive discussions with our trade unions and have presented a pay offer. We are still considering their feedback to the offer and will continue to work with the unions to ensure that we reach a fair agreement for our hardworking colleagues that is also affordable and delivers for London.

“It would be in everyone’s best interest to continue to discuss this without the threat of strike action, so we can work together to support London and the wider UK economy.”

RMT rail workers vote to accept pay deals
Ballot backs rise of 4.5% this year from train companies and from Network Rail, reducing chance of more strikes

Rail workers have voted to accept pay offers by train companies and Network Rail, reducing the prospect of a repeat of the national strikes that have caused misery for passengers over the last two years.

Members of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) voted overwhelmingly to support the pay offers that will result in pay increases of more than 4%.

The RMT said the ballot result meant that the long-running national dispute was now over and the outcome reflected collective efforts to defend jobs and pay conditions from the attacks of private contractors and the previous Conservative government.

The RMT held more than 30 days of industrial action since June 2022 over a previous pay dispute with Network Rail and rail operators.

A deal was agreed in March last year with Network Rail, while its deal with operators was concluded in November last year.

The latest pay deal will lead to union members at Network Rail, who are largely maintenance staff and signallers, receiving a 4.5% increase this year. Almost 89% of those members who voted were in favour of the deal.

The agreement with operators, which covers train crew and ticket office staff, will lead to a 4.75% backdated increase on last year’s pay, with a 4.5% rise for the current financial year. The ballot featured 99% of voting members voting in favour of the deal.

In a statement, the RMT said: “We thank our members for their efforts during this long but successful campaign.

“Their resolve has been essential in navigating the challenges posed during negotiations and in particular the previous Tory government’s refusal to negotiate in good faith, alongside relentless attacks by sections of the media and the employers.

“RMT remains focused and committed to supporting public ownership as a path to building a stronger future for the rail industry for both workers and passengers.”

The transport secretary, Louise Haigh, said: “This is a necessary step towards fixing our railways and getting the country moving. It will ensure a more reliable service by helping to protect passengers from national strikes, and crucially, it clears the way for vital reform and modernising working practices to ensure a better performing railway for everyone.”

Last week, train drivers who are members of the Aslef union voted to back a pay deal.

The decision came after drivers had taken 18 days of strike action since July 2022, resulting in a near-complete shutdown of English lines and some cross-border services, as well as a run of overtime bans that caused widespread disruption.

Separately on Wednesday, train drivers in Scotland voted to accept the latest pay offer from ScotRail after weeks of reduced timetables. The Aslef union said nearly 75% of its members voted for the deal, under which it is understood all staff will get a 4.5% rise, backdated to April.

The publicly owned ScotRail has been running a temporary reduced timetable since early July as fewer drivers made themselves available for overtime or rest-day working, as is their contractual right. Members of the Unite and RMT unions have also voted to accept the Scotrail offer.

............which workers are going on strike? Doesn't sound as if it will have much impact?

More Bad news....

From MyLondon, via MSN

Heathrow Express staff to strike over pay as London railway workers reject offer

eathrow Express staff are set to strike for two days after rejecting a pay offer. The operator has said that the move is 'disappointing'.

The RMT union says workers will walk out over 48 hours from Monday, September 23. This is 'in response to a pay offer that was overwhelmingly rejected by members'.

The union added: "Despite multiple attempts to resolve the dispute, members will take action next week [...] The union remains open to further negotiations, calling on Heathrow Express management to improve their offer and avoid ongoing disruption."

The RMT union's General Secretary, Mick Lynch, said: "Our members at Heathrow Express have made their position clear with a strong mandate for action. They are determined to secure fair pay and better working conditions.

"Heathrow Express management must now recognise the serious concerns of the workforce and return to the table with a meaningful offer."

'We will keep our passengers moving safely and efficiently'
A Heathrow Express spokeswoman told the Evening Standard: “It is incredibly disappointing that the RMT is planning strikes, but our well-planned contingencies are ready to go. Schedules will continue as normal, and we will keep our passengers moving safely and efficiently.

“The strike… does not include our train drivers and schedules will continue as normal. There will be no disruption to Heathrow Express services as a result of this action.”

It comes after train drivers have voted overwhelmingly to accept a multiyear pay offer, ending a two-year dispute at 16 rail companies. The ASLEF union said its members voted by 96 per cent in favour of a deal the union said was worth 15 per cent over three years.

Deal for Junior Doctors (including a very sensible change of job title to Resident Doctor) has been accepted.

A pay rise of over 20% being offered to Junior Doctors:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-junior-doctors-offered-20-33348420.amp

...
Good to address the message rather than taking aim at the messenger?

Mr Whelan said: 'So I am quite... not content, 'cos I'll never be content, I'm an argumentative b*****. And the movement will never be content.

'While we have the lowest pensions in Europe and people then talking about not giving people their heating payments, I'm not content.'

'Unions will never be satisfied,' Aslef boss warns just weeks after receiving massive pay deal

hmm. GB News - pretty much on the same level as the Daily Mail

............food for thought?..........

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/unions-will-never-be-satisfied-aslef-boss-warns-just-weeks-after-receiving-massive-pay-deal/ar-AA1qfS8w?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b13ba60be7564bf98ee55af9531dd9da&ei=40

And from The Mail ...

LNER strike called off....

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/lner-train-drivers-call-off-strikes-union-negotiations/?s=09

Revealed: Sir Keir Starmer had heated exchange with Labour Transport Secretary amid concerns she was 'failing to get a grip' on rail strikes

The Prime Minister gave his Transport Secretary a dressing down after being left red-faced by rail union barons.

Sir Keir Starmer hauled Louise Haigh into Downing Street to demand answers after train drivers announced 22 days’ worth of strikes just 48 hours after being handed a 14.25 per cent pay hike by his Government on August 14.

[etc]

Threatened strike action by ScotRail staff has been put on hold after a new pay offer.

The train drivers' union Aslef has announced its ballot for industrial action has been withdrawn and members have been asked to vote on the offer.

It follows "constructive" talks between the company and unions in recent weeks.

An emergency timetable with a reduced number of services will continue in the meantime.

The publicly-owned firm was embroiled in a long-running dispute with unions in the summer of 2022 which saw overtime bans and full strikes across the network in Scotland.

Details of the new pay offer have not been made public but it is understood all staff would get a 4.5% rise, backdated to April.

ScotRail's service delivery director Mark Ilderton said they were "pleased that we’ve been able to reach this position".

“The talks with trade union colleagues have been very constructive and it is a fantastic step forward with ASLEF withdrawing the ballot for industrial action and moving forward with a member referendum on the pay offer,” he said.

He encouraged colleagues to support the offer.

“We recognise the hard work of our colleagues, and the cost-of-living challenges faced by families across the country and believe that the pay offer reflects this, as well as providing value for money for the public finances,” he added.

ScotRail has been operating a reduced service since July, when a number of drivers stopped working extra Sunday shifts and overtime in the pay dispute,

About 600 services were cut under the provisional measures, leaving 1,660 trains operating between Mondays and Saturdays.

Peak-time services in the morning and late afternoon were halved from four trains per hour to two, external.

Caledonian Sleeper services would also have been impacted by strike action.

ASLEF, RMT and TSSA have been approached for comment

Striking rail workers demand 38 days' holiday on TOP of pay rise

Striking rail workers are demanding 38 days' holiday and 35-hour weeks after getting a pay rise approved.

Commuters have been constantly plagued by delays, cancellations and rail-replacement buses for the last two years.

Rail workers walked out over wages, planned changes to working practices and the threat of redundancies, leaving Britain's public transport in chaos.

Labour, under new Prime Minister Keir Starmer, pledged to renationalise passenger rail services and 'reset' industrial relations during the General Election.

And last week, ministers signed off 14 per cent pay rise over three years in a hope to end the disruption.

The news came as a relief to travellers who have suffered repeated misery as a result of Aslef's 18 strikes over two years – the longest rail dispute in recent history.

But now The Transport Salaried Staffs' Association (TSSA) - which represents train service controllers, ticket officers and gate line personnel - has also asked Great Western Railway to increase their holiday entitlement to 38 days per year including bank holidays.

The letter sent to TSSA members last week read: 'I have ensured that the team that is likely to meet with DfT (Department for Transport) are briefed and aware of your aspirations in advance of any such meeting between TSSA and the DfT,' The Telegraph reported.

The majority of workers who work a five-day week receive at least 28 days' paid annual leave a year - which includes eight public holidays in England and Wales.

The GWR holiday demand wasn't included in Tuesday's pay negotiations, which were described as 'productive'.

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh announced the above inflation increase which will see the average driver's salary rise from £60,000 to just below £70,000.

It is the latest move in a bid to end the strikes and satisfy the unions after  junior doctors were offered a 22 per cent increase over two years to end NHS strikes last month.

Labour has been accused of prioritising their union paymasters over rail passengers, pensioners and taxpayers after announcing a series of pay deals for public sector workers since coming to power in early July.

Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, also signed off on an above-inflation salary increase of 5.5 per cent for millions of public sector staff - at a cost of nearly £10billion.

She argued that further strikes would cost the economy more in the long run, but it sparked fears of increased taxes in her first Budget to cover the cost.

At the same time, Labour is axing winter fuel payments for millions of retirees as the Chancellor looks to fill a £22billion 'black hole' in the public finances.

Under the new Government's offer to end the two-year rail strikes, train drivers will keep the bizarre perks that the previous Tory government wanted to ditch.

Ministers said on Wednesday that they had struck a deal with union chiefs which would see the average driver's salary soar by 14.25 per cent.

The pay rise, which is pensionable, could cost as much as £100million. It is more generous than the previous government's offer of eight per cent over two years.

This also included conditions around reforming antiquated and costly working rules, dubbed 'Spanish practices', that the Tory administration wanted, and which would have reduced the cost of running the railways.

Drivers can choose whether they work on Sundays and get an overtime rate if they do.

Menial tasks such as changing a plug socket can take nine workers because of resistance to multi-skilling staff. Different teams can't cross boundary lines to help sort a fault.

These dictate that staff must be given extra time on breaks to cover the process of strolling to and from their mess room and a train.

For example, at Birmingham New Street station a worker's half-hour tea break actually lasts 40 minutes, with five minutes for the journey there and back.

While the offer came as a relief to passengers plagued by strikes, Labour was accused of surrendering to its union 'paymasters' because it comes with no strings attached.

The previous Tory administration insisted reforms, such as compulsory Sunday working, had to be part of any agreement.

But the offer is even more generous than first thought, as it also covers drivers who have left their jobs in the last two years.

This is because the 14 per cent salary hike covers three years, backdating to April 2022.

But despite the bumper pay deal, hundreds of members of the Aslef union working for London North Eastern Railway (LNER) will walk out for a total of 22 days, including every Saturday between August 31 and November 9 and every Sunday from September 1 to November 10.

Aslef insisted the dispute at LNER – which runs trains on the East Coast main line between London and Edinburgh - is separate from the long-running row over pay, which is set to be resolved after a new offer this week from the Government.

But shadow home secretary James Cleverly mocked the Labour government for being 'played by its union paymasters', adding that the 'latest wave of strikes will be devastating for families who rely on train travel to see their loved ones'.

A DfT spokesman said: 'Fixing our railways is at the heart of our plan to kick-start economic growth and ending the adversarial approach to industrial relations is the first step to delivering that.

'Today, officials resumed talks and held constructive discussions with RMT, Unite and TSSA to reset the relationship with unions for the benefit of passengers and the taxpayer. Further conversations will be held in the coming weeks.'

Rail union barons will today demand inflation-busting pay hikes for guards after train drivers got a bumper rise.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union will hold talks with the Government today and is expected to demand at least a 4 per cent increase for this year as well as a backdated 5 per cent rise for last year.

This comes after drivers got a 14.25 per cent increase over three years with no strings attached.

The militant RMT will then hold talks with state-owned Network Rail on Thursday about similar rises for signallers and track maintenance staff.

Union negotiators were said to be 'hopeful' a deal could be struck last night as the new Labour Government appears to be more receptive to their demands. 

RMT boss Mick Lynch has warned that his members will expect a similar pay offer to that received by Aslef, which represents train drivers.

Mr Lynch said last week: 'All things being equal, we are expecting a parallel, synchronised offer to that of Aslef.'

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh has previously backed RMT strikes. When Labour was in Opposition in 2018, she posted an image of herself on X, formerly Twitter, taking part in a hustings with RMT officials.

Alongside the image, she posted: 'On Thursday I spoke in support of RMT workers who are striking to keep guards on our trains.

'These guards play a vital role in keeping passengers safe.'

The post related to a long-running row about switching to driver-only operated (DOO) trains, where drivers open and close the doors rather than guards. The RMT has long opposed the moves.

The RMT donated £72,000 to 18 Labour candidates, including Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, in the run-up to last month's general election.

As well as the bumper settlement for train drivers – which they still have to vote to accept – the new Government has signed off a 5.5 per cent pay increase for most other public sector workers, estimated to cost taxpayers £9.4billion.

Meanwhile, it has offered junior doctors 22 per cent.

GPs are also now demanding an 11 per cent increase in their funding – up from the 7.4 per cent offered by the Government.

A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman:


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes

A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes

From The Independent

“Whilst it’s legitimate to debate the terms of the deal, the demonisation of train drivers and those onboard and at stations, who carry out a difficult and skilled job for the safety of passengers, is completely unfair. These people work hard and should be shown more respect.

“Despite reports, I had a good working relationship with the rail union leaders and recognised their role representing members. I hope, by sticking my head up and accepting my part, others can show our rail workforce the respect and recognition they deserve and focus on the future.”

Laws on union strike threshold set to be scrapped

Laws stipulating what proportion of union members have to vote for strike action in order for it to be legal are set to be scrapped.

It is understood that the government intends to go ahead with its pledge to repeal the Trade Union Act as part of its wider shake-up of workers' rights.

There are reports the bill will be tabled by mid-October.

Senior Tories have been critical of Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer over recent pay offers to train drivers and junior doctors, accusing him of being beholden to the unions.
...

It seems to me that the attitude of the last government to treat publicly funded workers, whether they were doctors, nurses, teachers, care workers or train drivers was tpo treat them as slaves rather than employees, with the slave master having absolute power over them.  This led to the attitude that they should be grateful for the little scraps that they were given.  Unions, they regarded (somewhat like some of them regarded anything with the word European in its title) as inherently evil and to be resisted and to be sidelined if at all possible and if negotiations were tolerated they should be at arms length and negotiators given no leeway to negotiate.  This is the absolute antithesis of the principles espoused by James Timpson (now prisons minster). 

This slavery view is rather at odds with the the free market idea.  The market dictates that if the terms are too bad people leave and that is at least partly why there are shortages of doctors and nurses in the health service though I am not sure whether it relates to rail staff. 

This is the sort of attitude that was prevalent in the 19th century not the 21st.  I recall that following some accident in 19th century (Mexborough?) the driver and fireman were immediate arrested on a charge of manslaughter.  The newly formed ASLEF hired a top barrister who fought their case and they were found not guilty and the company rightly blamed.  This probably informs the culture of the organisation even now. 

More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached?

"They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness!

Settled for 2022-2023 at 5%, half inflation. 4.75% for last year was less than inflation and 4.5% this year is double this years inflation but remember no pay rise at all in 2020 or 2021. Set against this it seems a reasonable ask. Especially as big bankers have had a £4.25 bn reduction in tax!

(However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!)

(However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!)

My reasonableness test was based on average wage growth in the UK being 5.7% for 2024, so 4.5% sounds reasonable to me.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/

However, deals always lag behind inflation, so you would expect that average figure to drop off quite quickly going into 2025, so now is the time to push your case.

More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached?

"They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness!

Yes I think so.  And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement?

Rail workers expect the same terms as those offered to train drivers to end their strike action, the boss of the RMT union has said.

Mick Lynch told the Times, external he expected a "parallel, synchronised offer" to that offered to drivers' union Aslef on Wednesday.

That agreement, which could end more than two years of walkouts, saw drivers offered a three-year pay deal, including a 4.5% rise this year.

The new Labour government also dropped attempts by the previous Tory administration to change drivers' working practices.

Despite the pay deal, Aslef announced on Friday that drivers at London North Eastern Railway (LNER), a nationalised firm, would strike every weekend in September and October, and two in November in a dispute with management.

Nigel Roebuck, who has led Aslef's negotiations with LNER, said members had complained about being consistently "badgered for favours" by managers "outside of rostering agreements and being contacted remotely".

Conservative shadow transport minister Kieran Mullan said the Aslef strike was "a taste of what is to come: a nationalised train service seeing Labour-backing unions staging walkouts despite a bumper pay deal".

The Conservatives have accused Labour of losing control of public sector pay and of "being played by its union paymasters", and claimed all trade unions would now demand "double-digit rises".

Shadow Commons leader Chris Philp said pay rises awarded by Labour, including a 22% increase for junior doctors over two years, would lead to tax rises at the Budget in October.

Labour Cabinet Office minister Nick Thomas-Symonds defended the government's approach, saying it was "sticking to the promises we made in opposition" that "we would sit down and find solutions".

He also told Times Radio it was wrong to suggest there would be no reform of the railways alongside the Aslef pay offer, adding: "We are absolutely looking to deliver a better service for passengers."

The RMT has confirmed it will enter pay talks next week with the Department for Transport, which will negotiate on behalf of the train operating companies. It will also have talks with Network Rail.

Under the terms of a deal brokered last November, RMT members, such as train guards, were offered a backdated 5% rise for 2022/23, the same as that offered to Aslef members under their three-year deal.

The RMT deal said a 2023/24 pay offer would depend on formal negotiations with individual train companies on working conditions.

It is understood the agreement included a commitment to negotiate reforms at a local level for an expected 4% rise this year.

That amount would be below the 4.75% offered to Aslef drivers for that year as part of the deal to settle their dispute. Drivers have also been offered 4.5% for this year, which would take the average driver salary to around £68,000.

Mr Lynch told the Times: "All the indications are that we will be offered the same terms as Aslef. And we are expecting that it will be delivered."

He added there could be "problems" if this was not the case.

The government has not yet said how the Aslef deal will be paid for. A senior rail industry source said the taxpayer is likely to have to contribute towards funding it, as it may exceed what train companies had set aside in their budgets.

The government in effect took control of the railways during the Covid pandemic, with most train companies in England moving on to contracts where they get a fixed fee to run services, and the taxpayer carries the financial risk.

A number of major operators, including TransPennine Express, have also been taken under public control in recent years.

Labour, which took over pay negotiations from the companies after returning to power at last month's election, has argued the settlements are justified by an estimated £1bn cost to the economy of strike action.

The previous government claimed it was merely a facilitator of talks between the unions and train companies, although in reality it was the main player in the talks because of the financial situation.

However the deal with Aslef, described as "no strings" by the Labour-affiliated union, has also raised questions over the fate of changes to working conditions pursued by the previous Conservative government.

The terms of November's RMT deal saw discussions over changes to working practices, such as rotas and weekend working, pushed back into this year.

Labour, which wants to fully renationalise nearly all remaining privatised passenger rail services over the next five years, has said it wants to put in place a "workforce strategy" for companies taken over by the government.

Train drivers at London North Eastern Railway (LNER) are set to strike every weekend in September, October and two in November, union bosses have announced.

Aslef, which represents train drivers, said the walkouts at LNER were due to a breakdown in industrial relations and agreements.

The fresh strikes are separate to an ongoing pay dispute with all train companies, which edged closer to being resolved in England this week after a new pay offer.

Separately, Border Force officers at Heathrow Airport have announced more industrial action in a row over changes to terms and conditions.

The Public and Commercial Services union said 650 Border Force officers will strike from 31 August to 3 September, before they begin a period of working-to-rule and refusing to work overtime until 22 September.

The union said officers were being told to "choose between caring responsibilities and their job" due to what it called "inflexible rosters".
LNER 'surprised' by action

Aslef said its member drivers at LNER would walk out every Saturday between 31 August and 9 November and on every Sunday from 1 September to 10 November.

LNER, which operates services on the East Coast Mainline between London and Edinburgh and is run by the government, said it was "surprised and disappointed" by the announcement following recent talks.

Its trains run to and from London King's Cross station and pass through major cities including Newcastle, York and Durham.

Various railway strikes have led to cancelled services and disruption for passengers for more than two years.

The fresh walkouts, which total 22 days, are separate to the long-running row over train driver wages at 16 train companies, which looks set to be resolved in England following a new pay offer made this week.

Mick Whelan, general secretary of Aslef, claimed the union had been "forced" into taking strike action at LNER.

He accused the train operator of "repeatedly" breaking agreements, acting in "bad faith", and of "boorish behaviour and bullying tactics".

LNER said it would continue to work with the union to "find a way to end this long running dispute which only damages the rail industry".

"Our priority focus will be on minimising disruption to customers during the forthcoming Aslef strikes, which sadly will continue to cause disruption and delays," a statement added.

A spokesperson said the company took "any accusations of bullying very seriously, and this is not something tolerated anywhere in the business".

The Department for Transport said the strikes were "extremely disappointing for passengers", adding that transport secretary Louise Haigh had called on both Aslef and LNER to "round the table and work in good faith to resolve this dispute and as quickly as possible".

But Conservative shadow transport minister Kieran Mullan said following the new pay deal offered, "it should shock nobody that more strikes are on the cards".

"All Labour are doing is encouraging the unions into more of this anti-passenger action, putting our rail network at the beck and call of unions, whilst passengers pay the price," he added.

'Not enough drivers'

Nigel Roebuck, who has led Aslef's negotiations with LNER, said members had complained about being consistently "badgered for favours" by managers "outside of rostering agreements and being contacted remotely".

"The bottom line is that LNER does not employ enough drivers to deliver the services it has promised passengers, and the government, it will run," he suggested.

The Aslef union says it has more than 21,000 members and represents 96% of all the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales, where it is organised.

Its leadership team has recommended members accept the newly-tabled offer for train drivers in England, which includes a backdated 5% pay increase for 2019 to 2022, 4.75% for 2022 to 2024, and 4.5% for 2024 to 2025.

Shadow transport minister Kieran Mullan said: "After a no-strings-attached offer to throw cash at a labour-backing union, it should shock nobody that more strikes are on the cards.

"It's a taste of what is to come, a nationalised train service seeing Labour backing unions staging walkouts despite a bumper pay deal.

In another separate dispute, those working for publicly-run Scotrail are currently being balloted for strike action over pay.

On Friday, it emerged that the RMT union, which had resolved its pay offer with the previous Conservative government, would expect the same terms as those offered to train drivers to be put forward to rail workers, such as guards and signalling staff.

Mick Lynch told the Times that he expected a "parallel, synchronised offer", adding there could be “problems” if this is not the case.

The RMT has confirmed it will enter pay talks next week with the Department for Transport, which will negotiate on behalf of the train operating companies and Network Rail.

I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round?

This amused me.  MSN appears to be setting new standards for press hyperbole.  Domestos springs to mind as it’s 99.9% b***ocks!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/careersandeducation/train-drivers-pay-deal-fails-to-reform-industry-s-outdated-spanish-practices/ar-AA1oS1DT?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=f758e70efdd94de5a08d2eeb80cebdf1&ei=12

This amused me.  MSN appears to be setting new standards for press hyperbole.  Domestos springs to mind as it’s 99.9% b***ocks!

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/careersandeducation/train-drivers-pay-deal-fails-to-reform-industry-s-outdated-spanish-practices/ar-AA1oS1DT?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=f758e70efdd94de5a08d2eeb80cebdf1&ei=12

Rail workers expect the same terms as those offered to train drivers to end their strike action, the boss of the RMT union has said.

Mick Lynch told the Times, external he expected a "parallel, synchronised offer" to that offered to drivers' union Aslef on Wednesday.

That agreement, which could end more than two years of walkouts, saw drivers offered a three-year pay deal, including a 4.5% rise this year.

continues in link

They have little leverage now in terms of getting through the reforms and changes to working practices that are desperately needed,  and the Unions have no need to consider them...... at least not until someone is brave enough to raise the subject again!

As it is, a well paid group of individuals are now getting paid more, and need do nothing different in return. Good luck to them.

I think as with most of these scenarios, reality is somewhat more nuanced and sits somewhere between the two.......there's little doubt the previous Government's approach was intransigent and was not going to succeed in resolving the dispute but given the relatively minor impact of the action the Unions took, and its low profile, they probably felt they could get away with it dragging on.

Labour have now effectively caved in and handed over the money for nothing in return.....easy to get it sorted if you're prepared to do that......they have little leverage now in terms of getting through the reforms and changes to working practices that are desperately needed,  and the Unions have no need to consider them...... at least not until someone is brave enough to raise the subject again!

So, no more sporadic strikes/overtime bans/work to rules for the time being, which is something to be grateful for, but many of those systemic problems will persist.

I wonder if an approach somewhere between  that which the two Governments have taken may have laid the foundations for a better future?

As it is, a well paid group of individuals are now getting paid more, and need do nothing different in return. Good luck to them.

It’s a decent deal in line with average wage growth in other sectors over the past few years.

Well done to Labour for getting it sorted so quickly and highlighting the totally inept approach from the Tories.

Conditions, a lot of which which vague and as such could be wide open to interpretation

The contractual commitment to working Sundays, which would be enforced overtime but wouldn’t be paid at overtime rate.  You can’t currently book leave for Sundays so there’s no way you could get out of working.  That causes issues with annual leave which runs Monday to Saturday

They wanted the ability to move drivers between depots. That could mean a Swansea driver being told they need to make their own way to Paddington, in their own car, own time, at their own time to cover a job.  The required hours between shifts starts when you book off.  So in the instance with the Swansea driver, booking off at Paddington the 12 hour clock starts but they still have a 4 hour drive home.  8 hours rest by the the time they get home with the possibility of driving to another depot again for the next shift.

Annual leave.  They wanted the ability to cancel booked annual leave days before a driver was due to take their leave if they were short staffed.  The same with rostered days off, you could be forced to work our rest day.  That removes the individuals ability to have a holiday or book tickets for events, family days out etc.  

Again, this may not have happened but then, there’s nothing to say it couldn’t.  Once you agree to a vague set of demands which are open to interpretation it could become very difficult to actually nail down the finer details.  

Training.  Cut all that back to help cover shortages.  A drivers thorough knowledge of their routes is what keeps everyone safe. From memory alone, a driver will know every inch of a route.  The name of every foot crossing, road crossing, farm crossing, bridge, viaduct, tunnel, junction on their route.  Every speed change, junction speed, the location of every signal, the routes you can and can not take from a signal to the point a route could be driven blind, and we do drive blind in thick fog and at night, and we do that by noise and movement of the train.  
They’ll know every station, the braking point for the each station, shunt moves, low adhesion zones.
Add to that they’ll know, again from memory, the ins and outs of all traction they drive.  That’s the air system, suspension, braking, transmission, engine, electrical.  
Then there’s all the rules and procedures surrounding degraded working when it comes to faults and failures with traction and infrastructure.
You attempt to shorten the training and you would certain elements above.  None of us wants someone like that driving a train at 125mph behind us.  On a bad, all of the above comes heavily into play, if you’re missing those elements that’s when serious incidents happen.  That’s why you don’t mess with training that’s proven to work

The majority think yesterday’s offer is great, mainly because it’s got no strings attached and it brings an end to the uncertainty of industrial action.  There will be a minority who will say this is still well below the rate of inflation and should be rejected.  To have kept inline with inflation, you’d have needed a rise of around 25%.  The majority knows this was never going to happen!

There are corollay questions - who's gonna pay for it, will it attract enough staff so that we're not constantly short of train crew (  ), will it help rebalance staff availability (3 x cancellations at weekends compared to weekdays locally), will it result in service reduction to get seat (over)occupancy up to balance the books better, and will other vital (rail) workers go for similar action to get the same level of deal?   I am sure that these issues will have been thought through - so I am not quite as concerned as my listing them may suggest.

Out of interest, what exactly were drivers being asked to sacrifice under the previous proposal?

A number of Thursday's front pages lead with the breakthrough in the long-running train driver pay dispute. The Daily Mail writes that the offer of a 15% pay increase, over three years, could end "crippling" industrial action. The pay rise, that will see the average train driver salary for a four-day-week increase from £60,000 to £69,000, will cost the Treasury an estimated £100 million, fuelling concerns that ticket prices could now rise higher than they otherwise would have as a result, the paper writes.

Offer received…… and I can’t see members rejecting it.

Train drivers will vote on a new pay deal aimed at ending long-running strike action.

It follows talks between representatives from Aslef and the Department for Transport that aimed to resolve the pay dispute between drivers and train companies in England.

The new offer is for a 5% backdated pay rise for 2022/23, a 4.75% rise for 23/24, and 4.5% increase for 24/25.

Aslef said the new deal was a "no-strings" offer, meaning it’s not conditional on changes to working practices.

The proposed deal could end the long running train drivers’ dispute if members accept it in a vote.

More than a dozen England based train companies have been affected by strike action.

Aslef leader Mick Whelan insisted the new government had not rolled over and given into all his demands.

“If it was everything I wanted it wouldn't have been this deal it would have been a higher deal, more representative of the higher cost of inflation," he told the BBC.

A breakthrough would herald the end of industrial action which has spanned more than two years and saw drivers stage 18 strikes and take part in several overtime bans, leading to cancelled services.

Under the new Labour government, senior officials began direct pay talks with Aslef bosses last month.

Industrial action has continued since Aslef last rejected a pay offer back in April 2023. More recently the union’s tactic has been to spread walk-outs over several days, with different operators affected on each day.

The package included successive pay rises of 4%, which the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train companies, said would bring the average annual pay for a driver to £65,000.

However, a significant point of contention, was the conditions attached.

Train companies and the Conservative government argued that changes to ways of working, for example to training and rosters, were necessary to make the railway function more reliably and save money.

They claimed hard-pressed taxpayers are having to contribute millions each week to keep services running.

However, Aslef argued drivers were being asked to sacrifice too much in exchange for too low a wage rise.

The dispute was at a standstill for a year, before signs of progress in May. But the general election was called before there could be a resolution.

Under the previous government, negotiations were conducted by the Rail Delivery Group, but ministers have had to approve any pay offer though, as the government in effect took control of the railway during the Covid pandemic.

When the Labour government was elected in July, transport secretary Louise Haigh said she was "committed to resetting industrial relations".

The Rail Delivery Group has since been removed from negotiations, with Department for Transport officials leading talks instead in July.

The Aslef union says it has more than 21,000 members and represents 96% of all the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales, where it is organised.

In a separate dispute, train drivers working for publicly-run Scotrail are currently being balloted for strike action over pay.

ASLEF said that their offer is likely this time next week

Beer & sandwiches?

Resuming at 1430…… apparently.  Certain issues needed clarifying (like who’s expenses were covering lunch but that might be a vicious rumour).

Reading in another forum that talks have been adjourned with no new offer having been made.

Bruvver Whelan was asked if there had been a new offer as he was leaving the building and replied "not at this moment in time"

The train drivers' union and the government are hopeful a deal can be struck to bring an end the long-running strike action, the BBC understands, as talks over pay are expected to take place on Wednesday.

The negotiations between representatives from Aslef and the Department for Transport will aim to resolve the pay dispute between drivers and train companies in England.

A breakthrough would herald the end of industrial action which has spanned more than two years and saw drivers stage 18 strikes and take part in several overtime bans, leading to cancelled services.

etc

We're hearing a formal offer to ASLEF is likely to be made during the middle of next week.

From my local GP practice site, see https://www.tyntesfield.nhs.uk/opening-hours

It's generally a Monday to Friday service, but it is possible to see a doctor at the weekend - by negotiation. 

Gps are just starting a work to rule - max of 25 appointments per day.

Gps are just starting a work to rule - max of 25 appointments per day.

At this rate Doctors will soon be earning almost as much as train drivers!

Happy to share, not sure what value it adds to the discussion as there are so many different factors involved in individual jobs, different businesses, sectors which make meaningful comparison difficult however I've never been one to moan, whinge or run/dive for cover when faced with a tricky question so here goes  ;

2020/21 0%
2021/22 0%
2022/23 2%
2023/24 3%
2024/25 3%

Indeed - that 22% to junior doctors plus all the public sector pay rises have been included in that £22billion shortfall....

Labour have spent £24billion in 24 days by choice....

A pay rise of over 20% being offered to Junior Doctors:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-junior-doctors-offered-20-33348420.amp

I can / will start that ball rolling but in a different direction.  During the last five years, I have completed my retirement and Lisa and I are now living on pension/saving provision we had in place prior to that.

Happy to share, not sure what value it adds to the discussion as there are so many different factors involved in individual jobs, different businesses, sectors which make meaningful comparison difficult however I've never been one to moan, whinge or run/dive for cover when faced with a tricky question so here goes  ;

2020/21 0%
2021/22 0%
2022/23 2%
2023/24 3%
2024/25 3%

It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information?

Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling?

It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information?

Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling?

How would you say the two roles compare?

Interestingly, a Back-bench MP's salary has risen thus over the last 5 years.....
2019  £79,468
2020  £81,932 (3.1% increase)
2021  £81,932 (no increase)
2022  £84,144 (2.7% increase)
2023  £86,584 (2.9% increase)
2024  £91,346 (5.5% increase)

or an increase of 14.94% over 5 years.

No, inflation is around 25% for the last five years. A £60000 salary in 2019 should be worth around £75000 now. A 10% payrise for drivers is a decent uplift but nowhere near what it ‘should’ be.

................something tells me they may be disappointed?

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/train-drivers-demand-pay-rise-five-times-higher-than-inflation-to-end-strikes/ar-BB1qGc3l?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=a97511f13acf44a59d7bd5d317a5b7c8&ei=6

Fresh talks in train drivers’ pay dispute ‘constructive’ – Aslef

to resolve their long-running pay dispute have been described as “constructive”.

The meeting at the Department for Transport (DfT) on Tuesday will be followed by further talks in the coming weeks.

The two sides met after months of stalemate under the Conservatives in the two-year row over pay, terms and conditions.

The Rail Delivery Group, which represents train companies involved in the row, was not invited to attend Tuesday’s meeting.

With a new Secretary of State for Transport in place, I hope, and think, we can, and will, get a deal done

Aslef members have taken 18 days of strikes since the dispute started, causing huge disruption to passengers.
Mick Whelan, general secretary of Aslef, described the talks as “constructive”, adding that with a new government in place, he hopes there can be a positive resolution that works for train drivers, whom he said have not had an increase in salary for five years.

Mr Whelan said the Conservative government and its transport ministers had “put the brakes” on a deal, adding: “Now, with a new Secretary of State for Transport in place, I hope, and think, we can, and will, get a deal done.”

It was the first meeting between the union and the transport department since April last year.

Previous talks have involved the Rail Delivery Group.

Transport Secretary Louise Haigh said in a recent message on X, formerly Twitter: “Fourteen years without a workforce strategy has left our railways understaffed, reliant on voluntary working and lurching from one crisis to the next. Our urgent priority is to reset workforce relations and put passengers first.”

A DfT spokesperson said: “The Transport Secretary has been clear she wants to reset industrial relations for the benefit of passengers and the workforce.

“Today officials resumed talks with Aslef, holding a constructive meeting as we look to resolve this long-running dispute.

“Further conversations will be held in the coming weeks.”

The new government is set to hold fresh talks as early as next week over the train drivers’ pay dispute.

The Press Association has reported that rail union ASLEF and the Department for Transport look set to enter talks to discuss the matter sometime next week.

The Labour-affiliated train drivers’ union has been embroiled in a long-running row over pay with the government.

That goes both ways for years.  Did I really hear Liz Truss blaming her loss in the early hours of Friday morning on the consequences of what Labour left her party in 2010?    One of the less gracious speeches ... of the evening and I felt it stretched reality

The Tories will be blamed. Labour will claim it’s all far worse than we imagined.

Six weeks later, new government - what happens now?

Six weeks later, new government - what happens now?